AVL's Reimagine Mobility Podcast

Brand Identity In the Global EV Market w/ Joe Grace

• AVL, North America

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In this episode Stephan sits down with Joe Grace to discuss global mobility trends, the role of hybrids in the future, the next advancement in passenger vehicles, and differentiating between brands. 

Electric vehicles (EVs) are a growing category, with hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and range-extended electric vehicles featuring gas engine generators for electrical power. These vehicles have variable-sized batteries, ranging from the minimum to some in some cases. Larger batteries can provide the EV experience if the consumer plugs in and charges up while consuming the battery, allowing the gas engine generator to generate electrical power. The complex emission requirements and electrification issues make EVs challenging to achieve. Some manufacturers strive to achieve a fully electric solution with zero emissions while providing the necessary range. However, North America's truck market is particularly challenging, with pickup truck owners used to heavy payloads, towing, and long distances. The Cybertruck, a new offering from Ford and General Motors, aims to meet these consumer needs, but it is challenging to meet all their needs.

 

Manufacturers face challenges blending passenger cars with electric vehicles due to pressure on aerodynamics and energy efficiency. The general shape of sedans and crossover SUVs is similar, making it difficult to differentiate between them. The convergence of shape and performance is particularly challenging for electrified vehicles, which offer incredible performance numbers. To differentiate and maintain brand consistency while providing a unique experience, manufacturers must differentiate their products while still appealing to consumers.

Recently retired from Stellantis, Joseph M. Grace led the Physical and Functional Design & Integration organization. In this assignment Grace had responsibility for the global development of all Stellantis product programs from Concept Development, Virtual Engineering and Vehicle  Integration through final Validation across the 14 Stellantis brands. The group has responsibility for all segments and global markets.  Prior to this assignment, Grace led the Total Vehicle Integration organization at Fiat Chrysler Automobiles which led all vehicle development, integration and validation globally.

From 2018 to 2021, Grace was responsible for Maserati Product Development in Modena, Italy with full responsibility for Maserati and Alfa Romeo product programs. From 2012 to 2018 was responsible for Advanced Concepts and Platform Development at FCA.  In this position, Grace led the creation phase for all future vehicle programs and the development of new architectures to support global applications.  

Previously, he held the position of Vehicle Line Executive – Street and Racing Technology (SRT) and A/B Segment Vehicles, Chrysler Group. In this position, Grace was responsible for the engineering management of all current and future SRT vehicle platforms along with the on-track motorsports efforts for factory-supported motorsports teams.  Grace was also responsible for A/B Segment Vehicle Programs.

First joining the former Chrysler Corporation in 1985 as a product engineer, Grace led numerous product programs in Body Engineering, Vehicle Integration, Manufacturing and Program Management.

Grace holds a Master of Business Administration degree from University of Michigan (1992), a Master of Science degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Michigan-Dearborn (1987) and a Bachelor of Science degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Notre Dame (1985). 

If you would like to be a guest on the show contact: namarketing@avl.com

Welcome to the latest edition of the Reimagine Mobility Podcast series. I'm here with Joe Grace. Joe recently retired from a long career at Chrysler, Daimler-Chrysler Stellantis. He'll going to be a whole lot better explaining to us all the different names, but great career, lots of different areas. So super excited to have you on to kind of get your perspective. Throughout the years, have you seen mobility changed and now that you're maybe with at least half of foot outside of work? Also a little bit, give us an idea, where do you see mobility go now that you're on the outside, maybe on the outside looking it Right. So, Joe, welcome. Maybe give us a quick overview of your career, what you've done, and then let's dive in together and re-imagine mobility together. All right. No, thanks, Stefan. And thanks for having me. Yeah. As you mentioned, I retired from Stellantis at the end of June this year after a little over 38 years. Started my career at Chrysler down in Highland Park. Largely in the first chapter was in the body engineering area. Then I went into manufacturing for a short stint, was responsible for quality at one of our assembly plants in Canada, came back into the body group for a short period. And then then I moved. I moved into vehicle development in the late nineties and then started a whole new chapter working on vehicle programs, vehicle projects that led to being responsible for the what became the L platform, the rear wheel drive cars, what became the Chrysler 300, the Dodge Charger, the Dodge Magnum, the Dodge Challenger, and then from there worked in program management and led to then the relationship we had with Fiat under FCA. And and during that period, the early period, I was responsible for bringing the Fiat 500 to North America. I had the SRT programs, all the performance cars, the re, the last generation of the Viper, also the NASCAR, the motorsports activity and then went from there into the advanced engineering organization led that still as part of FCA. And then I had a great opportunity kind of at the end of the FCA chapter I was, I was I had the opportunity to lead the group of Maserati and Alfa Romeo. I lived in Modena for three years and led the development of what's now all of the portfolio of the Maserati vehicles that are launching the mid-cycle of the Alfa Romeo, Giulia and the Stelvio and then other products. And then I came back and that was right at the onset of what's now Stellantis and I had headed up globally the Vehicle Development Vehicle Integration Organization, which is called Physical and Functional Design and integration. So all of the safety, NVH, aero, thermal, all of the validation, all of the advanced engineering, still the supports, the new program. So all of the work with the studios energy management, which is now becoming very topical with all of the battery electric programs. So that was a great opportunity. And then last summer I passed on the torch to the new leadership and have now started kind of this next chapter. And I yeah, and I've stayed close to the activities that are still going on and still obviously staying very close to what's happening in the industry. It's an amazingly complicated and really a if you look at the last 38 years is somewhat of an evolution. Now it's a revolution. This is a step function change in the products and and so it's an exciting time for the industry. It's incredible background. Joe is amazing to hear. You know again 300 right an icon. I remember I worked for Huntsville Electronics at that point and everybody talked about, this car is coming out. I'm building what you guys are talking about. Then I saw a picture. I'm like, yeah, this is cool, you know? And then, you know, the Viper. I drove that many times during testing phase. Is it not a great car and not a great car in a different way to Fiat 500, right? Something totally different for the U.S. market and all these sort of things you've talked about. And then frankly, you work for a pure American company, then for a German American company, then for Italian American company, and now at the end then of a French, Italian American company with all that again, from product and what you just mentioned, you know, the electrification of revolution and total transformation, the technology and the different cultures, if you kind of take that in and say, you know, you shake it five times and out comes this whatever this drink or this soup or whatever where is mobility going, where do you see it going at least with maybe in in the space that you're familiar. Yeah. I mean it's, it's, it's a really, I'll say, globally complicated situation. Obviously all manufacturers to the extent that they're most of the certainly the larger companies are all global enterprises. So trying to service all the different major regions of the world China, Europe, North America, South America's growing Asia's growing outside of China. And it's really complicated to try to then develop solutions that you can have the right scale to that and do well in the markets and be profitable and face all of these regulatory pressures that are still rapidly changing. And, you know, I think there's a lot of obviously a lot of different feelings about climate change and is it is it real? Is it happening? Is it reversible? You know, the commitments certainly in Europe and to an extent in China in terms of their pressure on electrification. But in Europe, you know, they're they're ahead of the United States for sure in terms of pressure to change. Getting will say that the broader population to accept change and then to try to develop products that essentially respect the pressures that Europe has. These increase doubly complicated, not just regulations with respect to the initial certification of the vehicle, but then they have registration, taxes and blacks entering cities. If you don't have the right propulsion system, you know, and everything is gravitating from combustion engines. And, you know, Italy just a few years ago was 80% diesel, you know, and and now that's changing. And basically the growth of electric vehicles in Europe is I think is is clear. You know, it's it's happening I would say the you know, the somewhat of a jump kind of passed hybrids then into pure electrics. But clearly that's not the situation in North America. North America is still somewhat in that transition. There's a lot of suspicion from consumers on, okay, is this the right type of product for me? Is it going to meet all of my needs? So it's it's a really complicated side of trying to get the right range, the right cost, the right price point to the consumer, and then to meet their expectations on performance. Because, you know, the in the end of the day, it's the consumer that puts their money out and either wants to buy or doesn't want to buy these vehicles. And so now the manufacturers are in a really complicated situation because their most are somewhat all in on new platforms, heavily electrified. And it's you know, it's uncertain. And the response that the consumers will have, you know. I think you brought up a very good point or maybe inadvertently you brought it up. You talked about Europe going from hybrids to now pure electric. And it's really taken off. Right. If you look at statistics right now, I think about a month ago, I look the U.S. is projected to sell about 1.1 million EVs this year, significantly below what Germany alone. Much, much smaller market than the U.S. is, is selling. The one thing I always a little bit looked at is has said Europe went from diesel or gasoline into hybrids for an extensive period of time and then sort of now is government push socio social pressure, environmental sustainability all of the good stuff. Now jumping over to pure EVs in the U.S., I feel like we've never went through that phase of of hybrids. We sort of jump from more or less gasoline, I would say, to battery electric. Do you see this? If you look again, as we reimagine mobility for a moment here on the powertrain side, at least you see it as something that the U.S. made a mistake. Did. We did we think we needed to jump? Did we think we needed to because government is pushing us? Did we think we could just jump right there because hybrids is more Canada a transitionary solution? Because now that's my last point I'll make you before I let you talk here is because now you're seeing auto OEMs in the U.S. that haven't for years talked about hybrids, suddenly talk about hybrids again. Correct. So what be lost? I hear your perspective from. Yeah, it's you know, it's a and then of course, you have hybrids and then you have plug in hybrids and even range extended electric vehicles that have a, you know, a gas engine generator that's making electrical power. But then still a fully electric propulsion system with variable sized batteries, you know, you know, all the way from the minimum battery to some in some cases. Now you'll start to see larger batteries that can kind of essentially give the consumer the EV experience if they want to plug in and charge up and it meets their drive cycle. But then if they consume the battery, then they still have the ability to, you know, get the gas, the gas engine generator to make electrical power and still keep them on the way. And then, of course, you have different sized gas tanks, too. So it's it's it's it's a really complicated set, I think. You know, I know, you know, you know, the hybrid plug in hybrid vehicles are very complicated because you have all of the emission requirement. As for the engine, which are that can continue to be ratcheted up more and more severe. And then you have the electrification side with the electric motors in all of the basically powertrain electronics that comes with those programs. So it's in some respects it's the most complicated solution. So if you can get and this is I think what some of the manufacturers are counting on is trying to get to a full electric solution that then, of course, is zero emissions, then do it and in fact it costly, but then still give the consumer the range that they need to have to then do what they want to do. And I think that's part of the hesitation in North America, because the drive cycle is, you know, a lot of people have the major highway driving, covering big distances. And then, of course, the U.S. is like no other country with respect to towing. And and obviously the truck market is is huge in North America. So you have these pickup truck owners that are used to doing carrying heavy payloads, towing and covering large distances, cold weather, all these things that then are really complicated on an EV. So you wind up with potentially a and I think you're seeing that now with the offerings from from Ford and from General Motors. And now we've got the Cybertruck coming right out now with all kinds of technology. And, you know, but it's it's got to meet the consumer, the needs, you know, at that if it's not accepted as a as a kind of quote unquote. There you have the the broad category of lifestyle trucks and then work trucks, you know, and the people that are looking for work truck, cover distance to carry payload to tow the electrified solutions are really, really tough to meet all of their all their needs. I think so if we leave for a moment. Propulsion Systems You've been involved with so many other things. Where do you see over the next five years the biggest advancements in passenger and stay with passenger vehicles? Obviously in passenger vehicles. Do you see it in in how we how we design and how we use shafts? Each one advantage to differentiate is the infotainment system that I think over the last ten, maybe 15 years is consistently involved today. You have you know, in some cases bigger screens in your car. And what I'm looking at right now here on my laptop is it is it how we use data to provide services and really, you know, make money through this, but not just money, but also truly value back to the consumer. Where do you see over the next five years the biggest leapfrogging in technology or the biggest change is coming? Yeah, that's that's a that's a great question because it's that's another just incredibly complicated and really interesting area because you have a general trend not just in automotive but in consumer electronics towards subscription services, you know, and then this in itself is somewhat of a hook for companies that want to basically draw some, you know, ongoing subscription revenue for four different things. So you have possibilities. So the in the example of the, you know, assisted driving assistance all the way from call it highway assist level two type systems to hands free systems, level three, and then ultimately, you know, potentially autonomous vehicles, level four, which I think there were you know, there remains a lot of interest in these systems, but then it becomes, okay, you need mapping solutions, you need technology, you need communication. So when a customer buys a vehicle, are they getting call it that, that technology, that feature for for life, you know, for the for the ownership at call it at its technology level when they first buy that vehicle or no in fact that becomes a subscription so you get your first three months, six months free with the vehicle. But then if you want that featured is still function, You're going to be paying, you know, X dollars a month. And I think there's there's some real risk in that because I think people are jumping. You see that now even with satellite radio and other things and then you have your wireless service. But those things are coming and and so will that be an attractive proposition to the customer? And then, you know, clearly the hands free or autonomous vehicles and you're seeing this now even, you know, kind of with what's happening with Cruise automation. And, you know, it's the these systems are wildly complicated and and then the redundancies and other things, failsafe mechanisms that need to be in, you know, in the basic hardware setup of the vehicle. So you have redundant steering, you have the redundant signals, sometimes you have redundant processors, you know, redundant motors, you know, they become very expensive. So, so, so this whole so the economics of the assisted driving and then kind of what consumers really want to have, you know, there's clearly there's a move towards highway assist, you know, kind of highway driving with type one highways app limit access plates. You know, you can kind of monitor that at a vehicle level a lot more easily than you can wide open city driving. And then, of course, all of the craziness that can happen, you know, in city environments. And you see in Europe, Europe is still they're moving very slowly up near there. They're somewhat blocking by way of regulation, you know, the some of these advanced technology features and that and I think some of that's justified. It's it's there's a lot of failure points and a lot of things can go wrong. So so I think there's so that's one big question is how how much interest will there be in the, you know, kind of at least levels of autonomous driving And then of course, the viability at the end of having autonomous vehicles that are, you know, not not driven or not even require a human kind of ready to take take command. And then are consumers going to want to have a subscription car service? You know, that they're not going to want to own a car anymore? Are they just going to just like they do with the Uber, they'll call up an Uber and then they'll have the car show up. And it might not it'll in the end game, it won't even have a driver. So that's one whole big thing. And then this then that you mentioned infotainment in the screens, you know, I think there's still the clear preference to have one screen for that for the driver, assuming they're still a driver, then then a kind of a screen to share in the center. And then, of course, you've now seen some vehicles with even, you know, dedicated passenger side screens and then rear seat entertainment, which was a big thing for a while. But now with all of the people with their own personal devices, you know, that that seems to be some model, something that's, I'll say, moving into the past. And then and then, of course, the preference of consumers to have functional, you know, a mirroring of either their iPhone or they're they're they're droid phone. And not to be bothered with trying to figure out how all of the OEM based systems work is. They just they just want to connect their phone and and use their phone. So so then there's that's another big kind of game changer for the manufacturers is that you just have essentially a screen or you're just porting in the information. But then of course there's times when the phones lose their signal and lose their. Yes. So you have to always back it. So it's it is. And then on top of that, you've got the assisted driving, the infotainment, and then you got the electrification, which has different driving modes, different region modes, possible, all kinds of end range calculations. The battery life percent, it's your you know, what's of concern is where we're starting to overload the customers with too much information. And the dealers off the. Land. Yes and yes and then the poor service technician that's and it works. Joe I got two more questions before we end up. The one is very interested, if you can share a little bit in your career, maybe at the beginning of the career to middle or at the very end, what was what was the one or maybe two companies or products, if it's a specific product that you looked up and say they really sort of have it figured out, at least in maybe in one portion, maybe on the powertrain side or on the design side or infotainment, as we just talked about. But what was one or two of those companies or products did you again, in your position or one of the positions you were in looked on, say, you know, what as I look at at that point in time, looking into how do I see the the future in motion mobility reimagined, I think they got it. You know, I think this is somebody I want to watch to maybe kind of get some inspiration from. Is there such a thing or was it more always internally focused and what your marketing guys came up with? Well, you know. That's a great question. I there's a couple of things that just pop into into my my mind. You know, I would say in the call it in the pre-electrification space, you know, kind of the the end of the last era of advanced combustion engine was, you know, a company that just stood out to me, just consistently making great benchmark product. BMW, propulsion systems, driving dynamics, keeping call it that user interface. Somewhat simple and understandable, but really it just a great a great machine in terms of like a road vehicle, you know, so that that pops to mind that the. Material tech that quickly. So you think they still can do this because I think I agree with what you're saying you think that can still do this with EVs or is it is it much more difficult? It to me, it becomes much more difficult. And this you know, this is a general plan and it's a challenge to all the manufacturers because and you talked about you talked to your question about passenger cars. You know, there's so much pressure on aerodynamics. There's so much pressure on call it being energy efficient. And if you look just at basic shapes and aerodynamic efficiency, you have a general shape for a sedan that will realize good aero. And then you have a general shape for a a crossover SUV, call it a slightly taller package. And so what you're seeing is the vehicles are now started to blend together. It's it's much harder to differentiate the vehicles and then, of course, electrified vehicles with their electric motors and their instant power are posting incredible performance numbers that you never saw on gas engine vehicles and only in the most extreme. You know, take that did that the demon, the challenger, you know, kind of the extreme propulsion system that we've added at Chrysler Stellantis and and so the so there's a to me there's a convergence of shape and performance. And then how do you differentiate and give that kind of your your consistent with your brand and your heritage a different experience that still then resonates with the consumer, makes them want to buy vehicles. So so Jeep is I think an example is doing a good job. It's we've got the Chevy Wrangler. It's doing quite well. Number one, selling in the United States. It's still consistent with its heritage for performance, off road performance. But obviously at our aero penalty and other things that are not quite so efficient, but it still resonates with the consumer. So so yeah, we're entering and then in the in the electrification space, you know, credit's due to Tesla for continuing to, to push and press the model three and the model Y super efficient vehicles, energy efficiency, you know, almost off the charts. But again, that kind of the lot of people find the model y shape, you know, not so attractive but it's but it's efficient and and so they're pushing the space and efficiency lucid now very efficient vehicle very expensive trying now I think they're adjusting their price points to try to get something that's more reachable for the consumer. But we'll see. But, you know, these vehicles are very X, That's true. But the bigger the batteries, hundred kilowatt hour batteries are still in heavy, heavy. And so those does tend to come to mind immediately cut. Well, that's good. And the last question, what's going to be the next car you buy and why did you. Well, I'll I'll say what we have. You know, we still have a Durango, a57 Durango. We told we have a boat. We tow it from Michigan down to Florida and back. You know, we're going 1300 miles towing. We would have a ram. But, you know, the the preference to have kind of a UAV for for the family. And so that's that's our call it our our current go to vehicle. I am biased towards I think that the grand Cherokee is a wonderful product you see now the V for the Grand Cherokee that could be in a near future. And then we'll see. We'll see about an e V at some point in time. I think I'm going to be one of those North Americans that I think transitions first to a while, ultimately to A any B when when the time that I go earth like. Joe, thank you so much for your time and the artists that are helping us reimagine mobility from from your perspective. You're perfect. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Reimagine Mobility Podcast. If you like this episode, please subscribe and tell a friend.